Reviews

[Marion Poirier]

The main workshop depends on reviews
for the life of the site.
Anyone who posts a poem should have
the minimun skill to review OR you don't
have the basic qualifications to call
yourself a poet. You can learn more
from reviewing than from posting
and establish yourself on the site
as a contributor - not merely as
peddling your wares.

map

[joanmarie]

Reviews seem to be the hardest thng to come by lately. I don't post much any more, life has it's plans for me, but when I do occasionaly post, I take the time to review a few other poems. Sometimes I get a respone to my comments, sometimes I don't. So it goes.
I agree with Marion, you can learn a great deal more from reviewing than from constantly posting. Attempting to get another poet to see your point of view can be difficult, and is often times taken personally. If taken for what it's worth and with an open mind, you will grow as a writer/Poet. If taken personally, you have already diminished your goals as a writer. I plan to keep growing.

Respectfully,
Joan

[Angel Clementine]

I am pretty much in the same boat as Joan Marie. When I finally do post a poem, I attempt to do at least two posts of commenting to other poets to every one posting of a poem of my own. At that particular time, the poems I find I am able to comment about on that particular night may already be a few days old, and I am "poster number 7"; I usually, in that case, don't get a response to my comments, which leads me to believe it wasn't even noticed. Bad timing, I guess. I pretty much stay in the Dance hall, which limits my prospects. I am probably doing my best, but I could be wrong. _Angel

[Marion Poirier]

Hi Joan, thanks for responding to this. I know we
are of like mind on this topic as we have bounced
around the boards together looking for the
best site. EP like any other site has its strengths
and its weakness. In the end all of us have
to remember is we get back what we give
in one way or another. The only way to learn
how to review is to jump right in and review-
there has to be something you can say about
the poem. It is probably best not to review
the other reviewers first so that you can
form your own opinion. Everyone who posts
a poem should review at least 5 poems -
that was the original concept and a good one.
I am sorry that tanka and Amber Light
did not receive more reviews-
IMHO - worthy of recognition.

Regards,
Marion

[Marion Poirier]

Hi Angel, thank you for responding to this post-
not the most gracious one I've ever written;
however, I won't make excuses.

My suggestion would be to post your work
on both forums - The Dance Hall and the
main workshop. I think it would be a good
ldea to only have one workshop - though I
was thrilled at the beginning when these
two additional workshops opened - the
attendance has dropped so low that it
is no longer a good idea.

We can only spread ourselves so far -
unless a review panel were to be elected.
I like this idea, don't know if anyone else
has time; we started that in the two
intensive review forums - but because
of lack of dedication and/or interest, it
soon failed. It does take a lot of time
to stay with a poem from inception
to near completion. A helpful review
can be finished in ten to twenty minutes,
you get better at it with practice.

If you review you will have your effort
return to you on whatever forum you post.
Never argue with a reviewer - that's dumb-
a simple thank you will do. Every suggestion
offered is on a take or leave basis.

Good luck!
Marion

[LynnDoiron]

I like reviews that show me a way to question what I have written. I often don't know "why" I may write something a certain way, but if I am questioned and brought around to focusing on a word or phrase and trying to figure out why I used what I used -- this helps me as a writer. Either I can defend my choices or I can't. I don't feel that discussing the reasoning behind choices made by the poet or suggestions made by the reviewer is arguing. It's how I learn, one of the ways at any rate.

I also feel the very best way to say thank you to someone for reviewing my work, is to spend time reviewing theirs. I am often remiss in posting thank you notes in my poem threads, but I do try very hard to give honest reviews to the works of those who review me. They come first. The poets who review my work less often, or never, generally are reviewed less often, or never, by me. Of course there are always exceptions. I tend to make up my own review rules as I go along . . . and then break them just as quickly as I've made them.

And the five reviews for each poem posted is the general rule we all sort of tried to adhere to, although it was never, as I recall, anything written hard and fast. If I spend an hour reviewing a longer poem, I may count that one review as five . . . know what I mean? I think the real point is that we try to give at least as much, if not multiple times as much, as we get.

Also, for reviewers who think they don't know how, or what to say -- there are excellent guidelines here and there, on this site, and on the internet, too. BUT, additionally, I would say that if a reviewer picks out one line in a poem and says "I like this line because [fill in the blank]" OR "I don't like this line because [fill in the blank]" then that reviewer has given the poet an insight to one reader's view of the piece. And this always helps [this poet, anyway].

regards,

lynn

[Marion Poirier]

Hi Lynn,
I enjoyed your intelligent, articulate and
cohesive comments- and agree with all
points as they are valid.
I think I may have to take a course in
communication because I don't seem
to be able to commicate my feelings very well-
perhaps too hurried- should think more
and say less. In any case, I agree that it
is a good thing to explain your reason/s for
a certain line, word, phrase, etc.

I meant getting defensive - if someone
says, Your poem stinks.
Well that's OK - tell me what's wrong or
what's right if anything and I might learn
something. I meant in this over-exaggerated
case and please don't take me literally -
that a smart person would say,
Thank you for your comments. I may or
may not review that person ever, but I forgive
rudeness rather quickly. I'm easy to get along
with and very flexible. (I like to think so) LOL!

You don't have to thank everyone who reviews you-
sometimes I bring up my work to get more reviews
when it's not moving anywhere but down. Best
to wait until you get four or five replies - but
I'm not the manners monitor; each grown-up
must do this one's own way. I agree that the
best way is returning one's reviews. If that were
the case you and I would receive at least twenty
responses for every poem we post. I think we have
done more reviewing than anyone else on the board-
together with Maggie and a few others.

I don't think asking for five reviews is too much;
you have made many good suggestions.
Time is precious to all of us who are working
on other projects and those who are working, have
kids and working on other projects - but at least give
one nod to someone who has no responses
to a poem after several hours if you are onboard.

I don't review those who never review - anyone
can review or make the attempt - even if it's a slap
on the back - far better than nothing, but preferably
offer some kind of an opinion. I never read the
How to Review articles - each has his/her own
way. We are creative people are we not?

Thank you Lynn, I appreciate your comments
and input here - good points and suggestions
as usual.
Marion

[Ron Wallace (Scotshawk)]

One thing is certain: reviews are the lifeblood of the site. The only reason I ever post work is to receive reviews. I need to know what works, what doesn't, what's clear, what's confusing. I appreciate the suggestions, the comments, the offerings of other ideas. I am a pathetic reviewer, and I know it. My only strength is knowing what I like. I've read works by Whitman, Shakespeare, Keats, Collins, even my hero James Dickey that I thought would be better with a slight turn or nudge, but in the end a huge part of the choice is personal preference. I never take offense at good intentioned advice or suggestions; I may not accept them or use them, but I read them and I consider them, never dismissing them lightly. Lynn, Maggie, Marion have offered me many ideas, and I've taken some and forgone others. I read every poem posted and try to leave at least a comment if not a suggestion. Any time I make a suggestion, I hope the poet realizes my ideas are just that: my ideas, and his voice has the final say. No one knows the writers' voice and intent better than himself. I don't expect the writer to justify or explain his rejection of my idea. He knows what he wants; why waste time trying to get the point across to me, who obviously has missed the boat to start with. Review and it'll all work out fine. Ron

[Marion Poirier]

Thanks Ron, you have said everything that I
forgot to mention. When you are right
you're right, my friend.

Marion

[Marion Poirier]

One more item on the agenda:

P.S Unless reviews pick up there won't be an EP site-
then, you'll have limited options - you could pay good $
for reviews that are meaningless, or do your own edits
without objective input.

Relentless in Boston,
Marion

[sanctus]

Hey, Marion. It's been a while and I've missed everybody. I pretty much agree with all the comments here except for one. There is no way that I am going to agree with you saying that you have a hard time expressing yourself! ha! I actually laughed out loud when I read that. Don't be so hard on yourself. Leave that to the rest of us. Good to read you, Marion. Later...

Daniel

[Marion Poirier]

Thank you Daniel for your comments.
It's good to see you here again
before I leave for a break. I know you wouldn't
find my message difficult to understand;
unfortunately, common sense is at a premium -
I'm glad you find my posts in this thread to be
written clearly.
I'll be back when I have more time.

My best,
Marion