sanctus
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And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.~FN
Posts: 389
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Post by sanctus on Jan 29, 2008 14:29:15 GMT -5
The present was forgotten as we spoke
about our lives and what we’d done with time;
incredibly the years that silence broke
coincided like rhythm in this rhyme.
Each struggle matched by struggle of a kind
blended with our misery of each turn;
compelled by reasons of a common mind,
We both knew, but somehow did not discern
the bond that separation cannot sever,
the chasm that no substitute can fill,
tenderness that kindness cannot ever
restore in us the things that such love will.
Beware of moments past that will not fade;
sun’s light does not wither because of shade.
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Post by David Nelson Bradsher on Jan 29, 2008 14:44:15 GMT -5
Hi Daniel. Good to see you posting again, and you know I love a good sonnet. A few metrical issues to deal with, and I have some early thoughts posted below:
The present was forgotten as we spoke
about our lives and what we’d done with time;
incredibly(,) the years that silence broke
coincided like rhythm in this rhyme. (collided like the rhythm of this rhyme.)
Each struggle matched by struggle of a kind
blended with our misery of each turn; (blended the misery of every turn) *metrical variation, beginning with a trochaic foot
compelled by reasons of a common mind,
We both knew, but somehow did not discern (Although aware, we both did not discern)
the bond that separation cannot(couldn't) sever,
the chasm that no substitute can(could) fill,
tenderness that kindness cannot ever (or tenderness that kindness couldn't ever)
restore in us the things that such love will.
Beware of moments past that will not fade;
sun’s light does not wither because of shade. (The sun will never wilt because of shade.)
For the sever/ever endings, Daniel, remember that a dangling unstressed syllable should be the 11th in the line. It's an instance where it's acceptable to exceed the usual 10. You don't have to force it into 10 because it'll muck up the meter.
I hope this helps, and we'll workshop this until it matches your vision for the piece.
David
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sanctus
EP 250 Posts Plus
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.~FN
Posts: 389
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Post by sanctus on Jan 29, 2008 15:55:25 GMT -5
David, thanks for the input, good notes. I'll work this around my head for a few and post a revision. I'm not sure about the use of past tense, but I'll mull that over as well. Yes, I go back and forth with the issue of dangling unstressed syllables and I've had a disturbingly large amount of conversations over the years about just that. I also have a tendency to avoid future perfect tense re your suggestion for the ending, but it's a point worth making. I have a weakness towards the metaphorical vis a vis the literal so I plead guilty. This little note is from the middle of an arrangemnet that woke me up the other night so I'll need to look closer at my own references. Thanks again!
Daniel
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Post by David Nelson Bradsher on Jan 29, 2008 16:15:26 GMT -5
Hi, Daniel. I'm not really sold on the past tense, but I proposed that as a way to fix the meter. As for the argument of the 10 vs. 11, I promise you that 11 is correct with the feminine endings. It's impossible to place a dangler in a 10-syl line and keep the meter. The extra syllable is one of the three acceptible metrical substitutions in iambic verse.
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sanctus
EP 250 Posts Plus
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.~FN
Posts: 389
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Post by sanctus on Jan 29, 2008 16:36:06 GMT -5
The following version is closer to my original vision and also addresses the points you made on my previous version. I'll likely play with this a bit more, but I already like this better:
The present was forgotten as we spoke
about our lives and what we’d done with time;
surprisingly, the years that silence broke
constricted me like rhythm in this rhyme.
Each struggle matched by struggle of a kind
blended and discovered inside each turn,
compelled by reasons of a common mind,
we know the truth, but yet need time to learn:
this bond, no separation can replace it,
this chasm, no mere substitute can fill,
tenderness and kindness are explicit
restoring us with hope that such things will.
The moment flies, but moments never die;
the light that battles pathos does not lie.
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sanctus
EP 250 Posts Plus
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.~FN
Posts: 389
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Post by sanctus on Jan 29, 2008 16:38:34 GMT -5
Did you say impossible! "What never? No never! What never? No never! What never? Well..hardly ever..." haha! Sorry, couldn't resist. Gilbert and Sullivan are likely turning in their graves.  |
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Post by David Nelson Bradsher on Jan 29, 2008 17:12:41 GMT -5
Dream that impossible dream, brother. Don Quixote would be warbling in my ear for that one, wouldn't he?  |
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Post by David Nelson Bradsher on Jan 29, 2008 17:14:32 GMT -5
Daniel, I actually like your original better. One met-nit, but overall I think it's a stronger piece. Either way, an intelligent sonnet.
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Post by MichaelFirewalker on Jan 29, 2008 19:01:03 GMT -5
quite a trip with both of you adorables!----even learned a thing or three...
good to see you here, Daniel----your poem is wistful, and yet somehow restful at the same time----I can really relate to "the bond that separation cannot sever----each time that point is gently, but powerfully reiterated, it pulses life into some nearly-forgotten memories...
michael
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Post by ramadevi on Jan 29, 2008 23:43:42 GMT -5
Nice to see you back here dear Daniel! Been a long while! I do love reading your poems. Please post more often! *smile*
This sonnet shows alot of promise but still needs some tweaking before calling it polished. It is a fine theme and your thoughts are deep.
I prefer a combination of your original and the revision. A couple of lines still need to be tweaked for the sake of meter, which i will mention in purple font.
The present was forgotten as we spoke
about our lives and what we’d done with time;
surprisingly, the years that silence broke
constricted me like rhythm in this rhyme.
Each struggle matched by struggle of a kind
that blended our two miseries in turn;
compelled by reasons of a common mind,
we know the truth, but yet need time to learn:
this bond, no separation can replace it,
this chasm, no mere substitute can fill,
tenderness and kindness are explicit
restoring us with hope that such things will.
The moment flies, but moments never die;
the light that battles pathos does not lie.
I think i prefer the original for the part marked in read, because the lines read more smoothly, i think resote is better than restoring, and i like that you have the word love rather thn things.)
the bond that separation cannot sever,
the chasm that no substitute can fill,
tenderness that kindness cannot ever
restore in us the things that such love will.
I also like your closing couplet in both pieces pretty much equally. But if you choose to use the origoinal closing, i woudl alter the line a bit from
Beware of moments past that will not fade;
sun’s light does not wither because of shade.
to
Beware of moments past that do not fade;
sun’s light will never wither due to shade.
Because in the orginal lines the stress on wither is on the wrong syllable.
Also, i personally prefer to make line breaks in sonnets so they do not appear so dense. But that is a matter of taste.
Here is how i would edit, if mine (but it IS yours, of course, so feel feel to ignore this!)
The present was forgotten as we spoke
about our lives and what we’d done with time;
surprisingly, the years that silence broke
constricted me like rhythm in this rhyme.
Each struggle matched by struggle of a kind
that blended our two miseries in turn;
compelled by reasons of a common mind,
we know the truth, but yet need time to learn:
the bond that separation cannot sever,
the chasm that no substitute can fill,
tenderness that kindness cannot ever
restore in us the things that such love will.
The moment flies, but moments never die;
the light that battles pathos does not lie.
(Alt ending)
Beware of moments past that do not fade;
sun’s light will never wither due to shade.
Looking forward to seeing your final result with this very fine work.
Regards, rama devi
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Post by LynnDoiron on Jan 30, 2008 1:28:05 GMT -5
So good I don't know how to tell you so will just say again So good. lynn
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Post by mfwilkie on Jan 30, 2008 5:29:58 GMT -5
Daniel,
Read both versions several times and my ear keeps putting a full stop after time.
The present was forgotten as we spoke
about our lives and what we’d done with time(.)
I like the conversational tone the opening verses establish with the reader.
'Incredibly and coincided' and 'surprisingly and constricted', in their respective drafts, chew up a lot of syllables (eight and seven, respectively) that might be used to clarify meaning/intent.
incredibly the years that silence broke
coincided like rhythm in this rhyme.
I read 'misery' with two syllables, here, Daniel.
It's the old 'his-tor-y vs his-tory debate. Reading the Old Guard could be confusing when first working in meter and rhyme and you found one of these situations where they used a two-syllable
count instead of three. Bless their imaginative hearts.
I like using the two, where appropriate, because it frees up a syllable.
And I think introducing the idea that this is about two people, sooner in the poem, frees up a line for development that I think is forced.
'We both knew, but somehow did not discern'
The use of repitition is one of the hot things today, and you might use it effectively here.
Each struggle matched by struggle of a kind
blended with our misery of each turn;
compelled by reasons of a common mind,
It seems we'd both shared struggles of a kind
where misery matched misery within each turn
as if each/these struggle(s) shared a common mind
The couplet, for me, is much too general and doesn't encompass
the body of the sonnet.
I like the idea in the shade line and think re-worked, it should be the opening line in your couplet.
Beware of moments past that will not fade;
sun’s light does not wither because of shade.
Maggie
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sanctus
EP 250 Posts Plus
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.~FN
Posts: 389
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Post by sanctus on Jan 30, 2008 10:44:13 GMT -5
Thank you all for the suggestions and the welcome. This particular sonnet has been banging around in my head because it forced me to wirte it and then left me wondering...I'm not done reworking it yet so stay tuned. There's a few thousand or so more where that came from!
Daniel
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Post by ramadevi on Jan 30, 2008 10:51:01 GMT -5
Please do post at least a few of those thousand!
Staying tuned....
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Post by Jonathan Morey Weiss-Namaste47 on Jan 30, 2008 11:21:24 GMT -5
This is a lovely sonnet, Daniel. I like the suggestions offered by David, rama, and Maggie respectively.
Lines 4,6,11 and 16 are out of meter as currently posted.
I won't offer suggestions now, because you have your fill here.
What I want to convey though, is how very much I resonate with the sentiment brought forth in the third quatrain. Well done.
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Post by David Nelson Bradsher on Jan 30, 2008 11:25:21 GMT -5
Line 16? Jon, is there an invisible stanza I'm missing? |
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Vasile Baghiu
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poetry is rather a matter of life than art
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Post by Vasile Baghiu on Jan 30, 2008 11:31:16 GMT -5
There are images here which work as they do in free verse form, Daniel, and I think this is a good quality within a sonnet of nowadays.
Vasile
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sanctus
EP 250 Posts Plus
And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music.~FN
Posts: 389
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Post by sanctus on Jan 30, 2008 17:23:31 GMT -5
Thanks guys! Jon, I immediately deleted line 16 after you pointed out the nature of the meter! Daniel |
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Post by Jonathan Morey Weiss-Namaste47 on Jan 30, 2008 20:10:29 GMT -5
Lol---you know I meant 14.......... ;D  |
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